paying for college - Stereokiller Message Boards

Time Husk
2,176 Posts
22/M/VA

April 5 2012 3:19 PM QuickQuote

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so back on topic to the real reason why college tuition rates are so expensive. Government invovlement in giving out education to as many people as possible leads to this. Whether I agree with it or not is besides the point because this is simple economics here. Also so so many people have a degree now or are obtaining one it is now even MORE expensive because to really get to where you want to go in life you're going to need fuckingt grad school.......

Originally posted by: destroytheweak

rates? how about government getting into the student loan business increasingly over the last 15 years? more competition in the marketplace will increase the cost of tuition. it wouldn't result in an increase like it has since the government got involved, but think about the fed and how it effects EVERYTHING. they can just print money, which means they have no lending limit essentially. plus look at the fed's role in inflation of the dollar.

I recently had to take out a small student loan for this semester. It's my first one and it sucks, but if noone wants to at least audit the federal reserve we deserve these higher prices.

Tim E. Husk

slavar som djur
18,819 Posts
47/M/NA

(1)

April 5 2012 3:23 PM QuickQuote

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Another immediate problem is the changing nature of work, which is changing too fast to do anything about.

Between globally competitive wages (i.e., low wages for traditionally middle class jobs in the 1st world because of increasing skills in the 3rd), robots, sophisticated computer programs, and a bad economy, degree inflation becomes even worse and leads to long-term backlogs of wrongly- or over-qualified people.

One of the benefits of a system that funnels more people at earlier ages into training programs for useful vocations instead of promoting college for all is that these problems can be slowly mitigated. Of course, this requires abandoning the central cultural narrative of the US, which is that hard work + college degree + middle class jobs = real chance at a high level of future wealth rather than solid skills = a good enough job and life style.

Tim E. Husk

slavar som djur
18,819 Posts
47/M/NA

(1)

April 5 2012 3:37 PM QuickQuote

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Originally posted by: destroytheweak

so back on topic to the real reason why college tuition rates are so expensive. Government invovlement in giving out education to as many people as possible leads to this.

Not at all!

There are wasteful reasons for higher tuition, such as luxurious construction projects, but the number one reason is that state and federal support for education has been cut as much as EIGHTY PERCENT at some schools.

Students are paying more because colleges get less from other sources.

Jason Voorheees

dogfood meatballs
3,947 Posts
35/M/NY

(4)

April 5 2012 4:28 PM QuickQuote

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Originally posted by: barbarossa

I'll say this yet again, because it is always important to consider - socialized education everywhere leads to greater restrictions and harsher standards for those trying to enter the system, not greater egalitarianism and college attendance.

Whether this is good or bad is a matter of personal conviction (I think it is good), but it is a central factor in the debate often left unexamined in favor of financial arguments.

.

agreed, and i'll one-up you; it's not just a good thing, it's a great thing, although i'll substitute the negative-sounding "harsher standards" with the bright and cheery sounding "higher standards."

but i can't think of anything better than a situation where the flood of new applicants -now from all income levels- leads the ivy league schools to eliminate legacy admissions and makes state universities as competitive as the ivy's. [imagine the fortunate problem of not having enough medical schools.]
what this translates into down the road is every profession being improved. even things like the nursing programs at community colleges would wind up raising their standards, and we'd have better nurses. i can't see how anyone could ever complain about that, although i'm sure someone will.

this is the only route toward the true elimination of class in any society. only when the dumb, rich, 1% kid cannot automatically go to yale and the smart, poor, 99% kid can become a doctor, will we truly approach a society beyond class distinction.

Originally posted by: barbarossa

Those problems are deeper and have to be solved at the earliest possible moment in a child's education. Equal access to college is only a dream if there isn't truly equal opportunity.

also agreed, although i may fundamentally disagree, if i understand what you're saying, in terms of the order of action, i.e. triage involved. in my opinion, you need to get to the smart but poor college-age adults first, NOW, while they are still young enough to be educated properly, and get them out from the ghettos and their typical career paths into fast food, and educate them so they can return as enlightened parents, teachers, and other 'transformational' members of their communities and reach those earliest possible moments in the lives of children, which they would do with a much higher and a much more organic efficiency, because it would be their neighborhoods. the experiment of sending white liberal missionary-types into the darkest reaches of the south bronx and compton has been a dismal failure, despite what uplifting hollywood movies may want us to believe. again, returning to the analogy of battlefield triage, you need to get those that can walk out of harms way first so they can turn around and help you get to those who can't. i think this really is one of those rare cases that does require a top-down solution; you can't reach those children if you don't have the enlightened teachers and parents first.

Tim E. Husk

slavar som djur
18,819 Posts
47/M/NA

(1)

April 5 2012 4:40 PM QuickQuote

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On the last point we definitely agree - I don't mean to imply any order, just necessary areas of improvement. The whole Teach for America, charter school thing is not the solution, but that doesn't mean that the elementary and middle schools aren't an important target.

A lot of the wrong type of attention is just self-serving resume-building opportunities for elite grads.

crunkmoose

FuckRandPaul!
23,637 Posts
62/M/MA

(9)

April 5 2012 6:35 PM QuickQuote

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The idea that more people going to college... a wider customer base... is what has driven up the price of tuition is absolutely ludicrous and ignores basic economics.

destroytheweak

Time Husk
2,176 Posts
22/M/VA

April 5 2012 11:53 PM QuickQuote

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Originally posted by: crunkmoose

The idea that more people going to college... a wider customer base... is what has driven up the price of tuition is absolutely ludicrous and ignores basic economics.

Well that's not what I said if you're commenting on my post (not getting defensive just don't know). What you just said though ignores basic economics down to the most basic level. Not trying to sound like an asshole, but you are 100% wrong. I'm no Einstien and don't pretend to be, but I am 1 year away from holding a degree in Economics from a University where I've been taught by 2 professors that have won nobel prices in economics. I know you love to blame the free market and corporations and basically anything besides government most the time, but the fact is that government HAS begun to get involved in the funding of student loan programs.

The fact that you would sit there and say a wider customer base (demand) is not what has driven up the price of education is not only wrong, but leaves me confused in how you could possibly type that without laughing. The number of kids that have decided to go to college over the last 15 years has skyrocketed. That demand must meet the supply curve at some point to cause equilibrium (price). The supply curve (number of schools) in this country has not risen at the same pace as people in this country wanting to go to college. Yes there are lots more community colleges, vocational schools, etc., but not enough to meet that dramatic of jump in demand for post education.

destroytheweak

Time Husk
2,176 Posts
22/M/VA

April 6 2012 12:00 AM QuickQuote

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Originally posted by: barbarossa

Originally posted by: destroytheweak

so back on topic to the real reason why college tuition rates are so expensive. Government invovlement in giving out education to as many people as possible leads to this.

Not at all!

There are wasteful reasons for higher tuition, such as luxurious construction projects, but the number one reason is that state and federal support for education has been cut as much as EIGHTY PERCENT at some schools.

Students are paying more because colleges get less from other sources.

Any links or statistics for the 80% cuts the government has made? also remember that you said at SOME SCHOOLS. this may be true due to where you live, schools that you and your friends have went to, but as a whole the governement used to not be involved in the college education system. Slowly they have begun to interfere with it and like almost everything the government get's involved with a higher price has occurred. I'm all for the government getting involved in certain affairs, but their interference simply causes prices to go up in almost all cases.

Colleges get less from other sources such as the state for schools like my University because states are flat out broke.

destroytheweak

Time Husk
2,176 Posts
22/M/VA

April 6 2012 12:02 AM QuickQuote

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Originally posted by: FUEGO CON CALLE MASI

no read, all a bunch of faggot shit.

says the person who probably has little if any education

crunkmoose

FuckRandPaul!
23,637 Posts
62/M/MA

(9)

April 6 2012 10:52 AM QuickQuote

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Originally posted by: destroytheweak

Originally posted by: crunkmoose

The idea that more people going to college... a wider customer base... is what has driven up the price of tuition is absolutely ludicrous and ignores basic economics.

Well that's not what I said if you're commenting on my post (not getting defensive just don't know). What you just said though ignores basic economics down to the most basic level. Not trying to sound like an asshole, but you are 100% wrong. I'm no Einstien and don't pretend to be, but I am 1 year away from holding a degree in Economics from a University where I've been taught by 2 professors that have won nobel prices in economics. I know you love to blame the free market and corporations and basically anything besides government most the time, but the fact is that government HAS begun to get involved in the funding of student loan programs.

The fact that you would sit there and say a wider customer base (demand) is not what has driven up the price of education is not only wrong, but leaves me confused in how you could possibly type that without laughing. The number of kids that have decided to go to college over the last 15 years has skyrocketed. That demand must meet the supply curve at some point to cause equilibrium (price). The supply curve (number of schools) in this country has not risen at the same pace as people in this country wanting to go to college. Yes there are lots more community colleges, vocational schools, etc., but not enough to meet that dramatic of jump in demand for post education.

Hmmm... you are correct. I was in a rush when I posted.. thus the short post, and didn't think through the entire thing as supply/demand so much as inherently more profit from more consumers.

Man is Truth

sleeps on hills
5,437 Posts
31/M/NJ

(11)

April 6 2012 1:58 PM QuickQuote

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DTWEak: Colleges have no incentive to not waste money and raise tuition. No incentive at all, when they pay for it from borrowed public money troughs- then the colleges just have to lobby a few congressional budget people and they get allocations to make up the difference between what all of these students are able and willing to pay, and what the college wishes it could charge.

which is related to this:

There are wasteful reasons for higher tuition, such as luxurious construction projects, but the number one reason is that state and federal support for education has been cut as much as EIGHTY PERCENT at some schools.

again a question of subsidies and pointing an emotional gun at the state to say, "Dont you believe in the future?! PAY US or you hate the future! THIS GUY HATES KIDS!" Then they can pay for whatever ludicrous outrage they wish to buy from their friends in their networks.

and yo there is not a "demand" of people who "want college." That is also artificial, as we are discussing in the Job thread- wanna make cheese? You are COMPELLED to go to college. Lets stop talking like it is in 1946 motherfuckers.

Hasse

Robocop Gas
4,030 Posts
29/M/DC

(5)

April 6 2012 2:24 PM QuickQuote

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Tim E. Husk

slavar som djur
18,819 Posts
47/M/NA

(1)

April 6 2012 2:29 PM QuickQuote

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Originally posted by: destroytheweak

Originally posted by: barbarossa

Originally posted by: destroytheweak

so back on topic to the real reason why college tuition rates are so expensive. Government invovlement in giving out education to as many people as possible leads to this.

Not at all!

There are wasteful reasons for higher tuition, such as luxurious construction projects, but the number one reason is that state and federal support for education has been cut as much as EIGHTY PERCENT at some schools.

Students are paying more because colleges get less from other sources.

Any links or statistics for the 80% cuts the government has made? also remember that you said at SOME SCHOOLS. this may be true due to where you live, schools that you and your friends have went to, but as a whole the governement used to not be involved in the college education system. Slowly they have begun to interfere with it and like almost everything the government get's involved with a higher price has occurred. I'm all for the government getting involved in certain affairs, but their interference simply causes prices to go up in almost all cases.

Colleges get less from other sources such as the state for schools like my University because states are flat out broke.

destroytheweak

Time Husk
2,176 Posts
22/M/VA

April 7 2012 7:25 PM QuickQuote

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Thanks for providing the source to your statistic that you pulled out of your ass in order to make your argument.

I was wrong in saying that government used to not be involved in the college education system. I was in a rush and was typing on my phone. State's have been involved in funding their universities for a while now. I meant the "federal governments" involvement in the college education system.

for you to facepalm truly shows your lack of knowledge in the subject so you mine as well lock yourself out of this thread since your mental capacity can't handle a rational discussion. If it could you would respond with more then a picture, since I was honestly interested in where that 80% cut came from. for you to not even respond not only proves how ignorant you are, but how you try to spit shit out and back it up with numbers that you could easily make up. If you're facepalming over the fact that government involvement does not raise prices MOST of the time you should probably exit not only this thread, but also any economic discussions in this forum.

Originally posted by: barbarossa

Originally posted by: destroytheweak

Originally posted by: barbarossa

Originally posted by: destroytheweak

so back on topic to the real reason why college tuition rates are so expensive. Government invovlement in giving out education to as many people as possible leads to this.

Not at all!

There are wasteful reasons for higher tuition, such as luxurious construction projects, but the number one reason is that state and federal support for education has been cut as much as EIGHTY PERCENT at some schools.

Students are paying more because colleges get less from other sources.

Any links or statistics for the 80% cuts the government has made? also remember that you said at SOME SCHOOLS. this may be true due to where you live, schools that you and your friends have went to, but as a whole the governement used to not be involved in the college education system. Slowly they have begun to interfere with it and like almost everything the government get's involved with a higher price has occurred. I'm all for the government getting involved in certain affairs, but their interference simply causes prices to go up in almost all cases.

Colleges get less from other sources such as the state for schools like my University because states are flat out broke.

planet of the apes

no
447 Posts
30/M/NJ

(6)

April 7 2012 9:11 PM QuickQuote

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