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crunkmoose
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April 2 2012 11:45 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Also, yeah... no other industrialized first world country has a health care system like ours... and for good reason. Want to know when England got its health care system? Around WW2. Want to know who introduced Germany's? Otto von fucking Bismark.
sidney
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April 2 2012 11:45 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
no...just like everything else.......... as long as it is a positive for their political careers they will sign it or not sign it.
Man is Truth
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April 2 2012 3:58 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
In other words go back to using herbal medicines prescribed by a local smart person,



no not necessarily- for everyday medical concerns, sure. Most doctors visits are for stupid things for which the earth made medicine without the intervention of corporate production.

But regulations are way bigger than that. There are regulations that prevent my apartment complex from just starting a fund that could buy an mri machine, to be staffed by the many technicians who live right in this village, who could say, receive a significant discount on their rent in exchange for their time and skills. But regulations prevent people from just organizing their own clinics along those lines, and burden the process with excess charges and fees and licenses, when in fact all it takes is a simple contract between workers, and a few capital goods/machines that can be bought from developing nations cheaply.

Also, there is the problem we had (and still have) before legislation which is the sale of adulterated or inadvertently harmful things being prescribed and the sale of outright snake oil.



which is fraud, and is already illegal. Protection from fraud is one of the jobs of the court.

Also your endorsed policies of increased regulation and public spending ENTRENCHES and PROTECTS the interests that poison people, because it creates monsters that are TOO BIG TO FAIL with many tentacles in the legislature. Whereas, a de-regulated, de-centralized, voluntary service provider model would quickly move the deceivers and polluters to the margins of the economy. That is because once people are cheated or poisoned, they are likely to not return for those services, and they will tweet about it. Only the reputable medical providers will have reliable business enough to justify remaining open.

Plus, there is the question of diagnosis. Your friend may be very smart, but smart doesn't quite substitute for experience and the collective experience of a profession.



I thought that it was accepted public narrative that modern medicine has the same success rate in treatments as do african and amazon witch doctors, and that most medicine is a question of faith in the care-giver and psycho-somatic reactions to his or her attention. So fuck their "collective experience."

also have you ever heard of the internet? There are medical journals, practicing doctor veterans, and formulas/bio-chemical laws that can be shared freely and discussed openly. This is not done now BECAUSE OF REGULATION. Because of regulations, if you want to practice medicine, you have to rack up mad debt to acquire the arbitrary license/imperial permissions. Therefore, after this screening process, it is not in your interest to give anyone any information whatsoever, because you are saddled with so much debt, in exchange for using that information later to your economic advantage. In the absence of such an environment, there will be actual incentive to share this information freely, as companies like facebook will compete to network reliable and informed medical practitioners and make their knowledge accessible and affordable to the public.

In short, you may have some good points about the larger companies involved, but in the end your friend isn't a doctor no matter how smart he is.



exactly. Doctor is a rank, awarded by imperial authorities in exchange for an agreement to sequester the information and technology away from the public, for the good of the entrenched interests. I stroke my dick at doctors. Doctor is a word.

Sure, he can use books and the internet to find information on medical care, but remember that the information he is getting is mostly there because of the last couple hundred years of real medicine.



these medical traditions and this knowledge you are citing arose in a deregulated environment without central controls and standards.
Man is Truth
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April 2 2012 4:00 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
crunkmoose- bismarck introduced public schooling also, and as I understand it, the point was to regiment and assess the common people so as to make his nationalist army the most efficient in europe. Are you saying that the government should assume control of different services so that we can all be better and more efficient subjects more capable of carrying out planned, government ambitions?
crunkmoose
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April 3 2012 3:55 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: Man is Truth

crunkmoose- bismarck introduced public schooling also, and as I understand it, the point was to regiment and assess the common people so as to make his nationalist army the most efficient in europe. Are you saying that the government should assume control of different services so that we can all be better and more efficient subjects more capable of carrying out planned, government ambitions?



wow.. way to connect what I said to something completely unrelated.. especially as my point was how long ago Germany started providing health care to its people.

Also... "There are regulations that prevent my apartment complex from just starting a fund that could buy an mri machine"

And one reason for that is how dangerous those machines can be and the reasons you would not want one in a residential building... put a gas canister with anything flamable in it anywhere near one and KABOOM! Think no one would ever do that? You are wrong. A workman actually did that in the building my aunt worked in as an RN. Fortunately because the building prepared for that and basically had architecture that channeled the explosion downwards into the ground the entire building didn't go up and the only person injured was the workman who lost a hand and had a few cuts and broken bones.
Man is Truth
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April 3 2012 6:20 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
And one reason for that is how dangerous those machines can be and the reasons you would not want one in a residential building... put a gas canister with anything flamable in it anywhere near one and KABOOM! Think no one would ever do that? You are wrong. A workman actually did that in the building my aunt worked in as an RN. Fortunately because the building prepared for that and basically had architecture that channeled the explosion downwards into the ground the entire building didn't go up and the only person injured was the workman who lost a hand and had a few cuts and broken bones.



so you are just an internet loser with almost no credentials to have an opinion about anything, and yet, here you are schooling me on the dangers of installing a machine...so, I would wager that the people and interests responsible for buying and installing and insuring and then using the machine- bet that they would think of this.



also of course you totally ignored everything above that, which was the chain of logic that springs from a desire to not have my affairs handled by a tie-flapping daddy white-haired govt official. I understand that you cannot relate to this, but you can't even argue it? "faggot shit!"
Man is Truth
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April 3 2012 6:22 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
also please tell me how it is "unrelated" that the man you are crediting with introducing "healthcare" to germany (surely before his blood-and-iron'ness, people just wasted away from preventable diseases and were saggy, soggy, sore-covered wretches!) also introduced an educational system for the expressed purpose of turning decentralized, politically apathetic farmboys into nationalist soldiers. So if he said outright, "Yeah we need schools so that we can file kids forth from the doors and into boots and onto Poland," why would you trust his medical schemes? lol you are a sad, sad man
Man is Truth
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April 4 2012 1:43 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
I thought that it was accepted public narrative that modern medicine has the same success rate in treatments as do african and amazon witch doctors, and that most medicine is a question of faith in the care-giver and psycho-somatic reactions to his or her attention. So fuck their "collective experience."

also have you ever heard of the internet? There are medical journals, practicing doctor veterans, and formulas/bio-chemical laws that can be shared freely and discussed openly. This is not done now BECAUSE OF REGULATION. Because of regulations, if you want to practice medicine, you have to rack up mad debt to acquire the arbitrary license/imperial permissions. Therefore, after this screening process, it is not in your interest to give anyone any information whatsoever, because you are saddled with so much debt, in exchange for using that information later to your economic advantage. In the absence of such an environment, there will be actual incentive to share this information freely, as companies like facebook will compete to network reliable and informed medical practitioners and make their knowledge accessible and affordable to the public.



Doctor is a rank, awarded by imperial authorities in exchange for an agreement to sequester the information and technology away from the public, for the good of the entrenched interests. I stroke my dick at doctors. Doctor is a word.

crunkmoose
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June 28 2012 11:17 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
"so, I would wager that the people and interests responsible for buying and installing and insuring and then using the machine- bet that they would think of this."

You mean like the people at the large hospital my aunt worked at did? You know.. that place where there WAS an explosion due to someone bringing an oxygen cannister into the MRI area. And, yeah.. I would definitely want something like that in my apt. building.



Originally posted by: Man is Truth

also please tell me how it is "unrelated" that the man you are crediting with introducing "healthcare" to germany (surely before his blood-and-iron'ness, people just wasted away from preventable diseases and were saggy, soggy, sore-covered wretches!) also introduced an educational system for the expressed purpose of turning decentralized, politically apathetic farmboys into nationalist soldiers. So if he said outright, "Yeah we need schools so that we can file kids forth from the doors and into boots and onto Poland," why would you trust his medical schemes? lol you are a sad, sad man



Why would I trust his medical schemes? Hmm.. perhaps because they have effectively provided healthcare to Germany for nearly 100 years. His original intent for providing healthcare to his people is rather irrelevant if the plan for providing healthcare actually fucking worked in providing healthcare. ... or would you prefer ideological purity to using perfectly viable plans for healthcare that were developed by someone in history you otherwise didn't like? I'm pretty sure the Kaiser isn't going to come back from the dead to call upon his armies of people who have gotten healthcare due to his plan, nor is providing healthcare to most people in the US going to be used to invade Poland and restore the glory of Deutschland.
crunkmoose
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June 28 2012 11:20 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
"Doctor is a rank, awarded by imperial authorities in exchange for an agreement to sequester the information and technology away from the public, for the good of the entrenched interests."

Yeah, because you wouldn't necessarily want anyone with actual education or experience in the field whose actual and only profession was medicine to provide health care when a smart person you know can read a few books and figure out what is wrong with you reliably. Its not because health care is important and providing it can be difficult and complex.. its all just a conspiracy to keep the masses from... reading all those books your smart friend reads to then provide you with your health care.
Brett Weir
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June 28 2012 4:31 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Man is Truth is a fucking retard lmao
crunkmoose
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June 28 2012 4:43 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: Kermit Butts

Man is Truth fucking is an absolutely fucking retarded fucking fucktard of a fucking retard lmao

Man is Truth
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July 5 2012 3:46 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
So I see a lot of profanity, some tear-jerker sentimental anecdotal horse shit, and mad evasions, but nothing that resembles even an attempt to break away from faith in the establishment and its lullabies about taking care of you.

Anyone read about how the NHS in England has euthanised 130,000 old people this (maybe last?) year? When you go into their hospital system, and they see that you are old, and that care is expensive, and that you are never going to return to work and never again going to pay taxes, and are collecting a burdensome pension, they literally put you in a room to die.

Why would anyone here trust the care of their family to a board room in DC? The president has a noon meeting where he writes a list of villagers to murder with drones, and then, shit, almost 2pm, time for my executive hospital commission meeting! You think he just walks into the room like, "alright- how can we save everyone?!"

Even if he did, what does he say when his Czars( LOL!) reluctantly cough and say, "well...that isn't in the budget."

These are your own fuckin parents we are talking about people.
crunkmoose
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July 5 2012 9:27 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
"Anyone read about how the NHS in England has euthanised 130,000 old people this (maybe last?) year? "

Any links for that?

... and you do realize that every single first world nation has some sort of socialized health care program, right? Every single fucking one of them. Germany has had a program similar to ours for over 100 years already.
Jason Voorheees
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July 5 2012 5:04 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: Kadesh

The reason people feel like they need to be baby fed by the government is out of fear of the lack of security.








New Jersey Woman Has 51-Pound Tumor Removed After Delaying Treatment Until She Became Eligible For Health Insurance

Reuters 07/05/2012

NEW YORK (Reuters) - New Jersey surgeons removed a rapidly growing, 51-pound (23-kg) cancerous tumor from a woman who had delayed treatment for more than a month until she became eligible for health insurance, her doctor said on Tuesday.

Evelyn noticed discomfort in her abdomen and that her normally 120-pound frame was rapidly ballooning. Dupree said she sought medical help on June 4, just days after her 65th birthday, when she would qualify for Medicare, the U.S. healthcare program for seniors.

"She was a skinny lady with a huge belly. I mean it looked like she was literally pregnant with triplets," said Dr. David Dupree, who led the surgery on the 65-year-old woman, at Riverview Medical Center in Red Bank, New Jersey.

By now, she weighed more than 170 pounds, her legs were swollen with trapped blood, she was badly dehydrated, and, scans showed, the tumor - a malignant sarcoma - was crushing her inferior vena cava, one of the main veins returning blood to the heart, and putting her life in danger.

With her body too weakened to be operated on immediately, Dupree scheduled surgery for the following Monday, allowing time for her to become rehydrated and for her blood pressure to be brought under control.

"The reason she didn't go earlier was because she had no insurance," he said.

But after she became short of breath on Sunday evening, Dupree brought the surgery forward.

"I knew that she wasn't going to make it through the night," he said.

"Either she goes now or she dies tonight," he recalled thinking.

Opening her up, Dupree and his team found the tumor, which appeared to have originated out of the fatty tissue around her large intestine, had engulfed many of her internal organs, and had to be sliced away "millimeter by millimeter" over the course of the five-hour surgery.

Evelyn was still recovering from the operation in a rehabilitation center on Tuesday, Dupree said. She declined to be interviewed.

Although the immediate threat to her life has passed, she must still see an oncologist about treatment for her cancer, which may not have been completely eradicated by the surgery, and may require chemotherapy or radiation therapy.
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