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thevengenceaz

king hippo
10,585 Posts
35/N/A/AZ

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March 17 2008 5:52 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
If this guy were my pastor, i would almost consider going to church.

I find it hard to understand why everyone is in such a hoopla over what this guy was saying, for the most part i agree with him. it's a shame though that what he said is having a devistating impact on obamas campaign, and its even more of a shame that obama has to distance himself from someone that he refers to as a mentor. I still think that Obama will get out of this mess, and eventually take the nomination. i hope i live to see the first athiest president, that way dumb shit like this won't matter.
crunkmoose
Fuck Nazis.
24,526 Posts
61/M/MA


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March 17 2008 5:56 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
As tragic and stupid as it is... I always want to laugh when I hear someone (usually a Christian) talk about what a murderous monster an atheistic leader would be... as if Christian leaders have done such a great job. Its an assumption that people will do horrible things without an outside power.. namely God... there to keep them in line. About the only time we've seen that actually work is when the church itself takes the role of murderous monster and threatens death or torture to those who oppose their rule.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,478 Posts
35/M/PA


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March 17 2008 7:16 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
I'd like to just ignore you but it pisses me off when people talk as hypocritical as you. You act like atheists are perfect little angels and Christians are a curse on this world. Get your head out of the ground. You can't be a Christian (someone who follows Christ) and be as evil as you act like Christians are. It's not possible.
Tim E. Husk
slavar som djur
19,110 Posts
53/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:17 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: crunkmoose

As tragic and stupid as it is... I always want to laugh when I hear someone (usually a Christian) talk about what a murderous monster an atheistic leader would be... as if Christian leaders have done such a great job. Its an assumption that people will do horrible things without an outside power.. namely God... there to keep them in line. About the only time we've seen that actually work is when the church itself takes the role of murderous monster and threatens death or torture to those who oppose their rule.



pretty much. the whole argument that people NEED religion as a moral guideline, else they will be monsters, is one of the greatest laughs i've ever heard.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,478 Posts
35/M/PA


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March 17 2008 7:19 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
You've haven't read the same philosophy books as me then. It's a far truthful laugh to say that morality is logical in a world where God doesn't exist.
Tim E. Husk
slavar som djur
19,110 Posts
53/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:34 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
no it isn't.

there is no sense in basing the argument from the standpoint of origins - meaning, even IF morality only arose through religion (which you will never convince me of, but we're being hypothetical), that doesn't mean that we still need it to define what is moral and what isn't.

i'm sorry dude, but humanism is not dependent on christianity and isn't exactly a new phenomenon either.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,478 Posts
35/M/PA


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March 17 2008 7:37 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Morality (right and wrong) at all is dependent on the idea that truth exists, and that someone is wrong while someone else is right.
Davey.
Baby Cole
43,537 Posts
32/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:38 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
the whole 'no morality without god' argument is absolute bullshit.
Tim E. Husk
slavar som djur
19,110 Posts
53/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:41 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: matt.

Morality (right and wrong) at all is dependent on the idea that truth exists, and that someone is wrong while someone else is right.



lol. so we need religion to agree that truth exists?

i would say wake up and smell the enlightenment, but you're several centuries late and too far behind to catch up.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,478 Posts
35/M/PA


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March 17 2008 7:41 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Do you believe that there is right and wrong(both of you)?
Tim E. Husk
slavar som djur
19,110 Posts
53/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:42 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
sorry socrates, i'm about to sit down to dinner and you will never convince anyone here that your medieval viewpoint is correct.
Davey.
Baby Cole
43,537 Posts
32/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:42 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by:matt.

Do you believe that there is right and wrong?


i think it's always subjective, as any logical person should.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,478 Posts
35/M/PA


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March 17 2008 7:43 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
hold on norse, I didn't say I believed anything yet. How about you stop putting words in my mouth and we can talk....I can play the same game if you start doing that.
Tim E. Husk
slavar som djur
19,110 Posts
53/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:45 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
haha. do you need to say anything? i know full well that a) you believe morality is not only objective but that it is dependent on the teachings of religion and b) therefore there can be no real morality without religious truth.

you say this shit weekly, so correct if i'm wrong, but i don't think i am.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,478 Posts
35/M/PA


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March 17 2008 7:45 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by:black jack davey

Originally posted by:matt.

Do you believe that there is right and wrong?


i think it's always subjective, as any logical person should.



What makes it subjective? You say morality can exist without God so you're admitting that morality does exist so If right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder, then how can morality exist?
Davey.
Baby Cole
43,537 Posts
32/M/NA


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March 17 2008 7:50 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by:matt.

Originally posted by:black jack davey

Originally posted by:matt.

Do you believe that there is right and wrong?


i think it's always subjective, as any logical person should.



What makes it subjective? You say morality can exist without God so you're admitting that morality does exist so If right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder, then how can morality exist?


you can apply this bogus argument to anything that is quantitative or opinion based.
'without god, how can you say what is beautiful and what is ugly? he is surely the only one who knows.'

things change depending on context, as should a logical person's moral standpoint. if you'd like me to give you some examples on which you can test the morals god gave you, i can.
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